Legislature(1995 - 1996)
01/31/1995 05:05 PM House WTR
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Number 024
HB 83 - REVIEW OF FEDERALLY MANDATED PROGRAMS
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, sponsor of the measure, stated that HB
83 is a companion to HJR 8 and articulates that the citizens of
Alaska stand against further attempts, by the federal government,
to encroach upon our autonomy and rights as a state under the Tenth
Amendment to the United States Constitution. It requires that any
commissioner or agency head faced with implementing a federal
mandate or condition must first carefully analyze the mandate for
three specific difficulties before making any efforts at
compliance. First, is the federal policy or legislation an
unconstitutional abrogation of state power? Second, is it in
conflict with state policy? And third, is the federal mandate a
cost effective method in this of dealing with the problem it
addresses. Representative Ogan said the agency head or
commissioner will present his findings in the form of a written
report to the Governor, the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee,
and the House and Senate Judiciary Committees. The two legislative
committees receiving such reports shall review them and are
authorized to research the legality of the mandate. Their
conclusions shall be presented to the Governor, along with specific
recommendations to the executive branch for compliance, modified
compliance, or a legal challenge. He said that the resolution
provides a mechanism to scrutinize efforts by the federal
government to impose unsuitable policy on our state, and to assert
our right to self-determination, a right purchased for us at high
cost by our ancestors.
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS arrived at 5:09 p.m.
Number 070
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY MACKIE inquired as to foreseen legal problems
by not enacting federal mandates and what kind of money we would
lose by not implementing some of these mandates.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded by saying that he did not believe
that there was an analysis done. The federal government has
imposed some 192 mandates on our state. He stated that over a nine
year period, environmental unfunded federal mandates have cost the
Municipality of Anchorage nearly one-half billion dollars.
Number 114
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked why are we doing this if the federal
government is not going to give us the money. For instance, if we
don't adhere to the federal mandates in the Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC) that we've got the Environmental
Protection Agency (EPA) managing and different problems there. He
said he would like to look at Medicaid and the other programs that
have financial impact that affect us.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he believes the bill would bring those
sort of problems to the forefront. Currently, there's no modality
to set up and analyze any of this. He says that he's sure that the
federal government will take the loose funding for refusing to do
a mandate into consideration. The federal government has the
option to implement the mandate.
Number 140
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS stated that he's not aware of any federal
mandate that the state has to spend money on. The state can reject
any of them. There are several requirements that we are given as
a time frame to implement, such as the "helmet law" last year. We
had so (X-number of) many years to implement to it or lose a
percentage of those federal dollars that would not be able to be
spent on highway construction. The U.S. Senate just passed SB 1,
which was their response to unfunded mandates and the House has a
similar bill to be out soon. He believes there are some technical
and legal questions that come up with this legislation.
Number 173
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS responded by saying that she doesn't
believe the state has an option on mandates that come down dealing
with public education or special education. We have to handle
those regardless.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE inquired if the bill was necessary or if the
Administration has the ability to do this or if we have to give
statutory authority to the Administration to use federal mandates.
CHAIRMAN BARNES said if the Administration were able to do this,
surely they would have.
Number 190
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN says the federal government routinely
"blackmails" us. It's a form of taxation that the federal
government wants to pass a program, but they don't want to fund it,
so they say that the states have to do this otherwise if we don't
do it, we'll be blackmailed and they will withhold funds for this
program or that program.
REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA stated that the legislature is just as
guilty as the federal government by requiring cities to do things,
whether its senior citizen tax rebates we don't fund or whether its
telling school districts to teach something else and then don't
fund them or whether its telling each department to make out
another report, even though they put out a zero fiscal note. I can
tell you there's a cost to it and it coming out of somebody's
budget. Every time we pass a law and direct anybody in the state,
we are really doing the same thing.
Number 230
JOHN B. `JACK' COGHILL, Consultant, Coghill, Wilcox and Associates,
says the bill relieves the policy maker, which is the legislature,
in directing the Administration and the people within the agencies
to give a report so that the legislature can act accordingly. It
puts lawmakers right in the driver's seat. This issue has been
around at least since 1981, and this is the first time he's seen
anyone focus on it to the point where we'll be able to do something
about it.
ROBERT SCHMACHER, testifying from the Mat-Su Borough, said the bill
is something that the Alaska Independence Party has talked about
many times. He said as an individual he feels the bill is a very
important issue for the committee to consider. He urged that the
bill be moved in its current form.
Number 290
GENE OTTENSTROER, testified, via teleconference, from Delta
Junction. He said he feels in general it's a good bill. As the
bottom line, he was concerned about how much freedom we would have
to give up.
SCOTT HAMANN, Alaskan Bikers Advocating Training and Education
(ABATE), testified, via teleconference, from Kenai. He said he
supports the bill but, addressed the problem of implementing the
mandate first and then having review after the year's done. We
need to have a vehicle, in place, to review the program before the
mandate is in place to see if we want the program.
GARY SUPERMAN, testifying via teleconference from Kenai, said he's
surprised at the number of Tenth Amendment resolutions and bills
that have cropped up. He said he questions about the legislative
review being to open ended. He would like the legislature to
incorporate the bill with that of the Senate bill in Colorado.
Number 351
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS pointed out that if there was one thing
that people were talking about during this past interim around the
Kenai Peninsula, it was the legislature taking action on this type
of legislation. She said she appreciates very much the input from
the general public during the interim.
MIKE SEAMAN, testifying via teleconference from Kenai, said he
thinks a bill is needed, but was hesitant to say whether this was
the right way to go.
SEYMOUR MILLS, testifying via teleconference from Kenai, felt that
any bill that passes out would need a review to check to see that
it fits under Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution, before
anything ever happens. If it doesn't fit, then it should be
rejected.
JACK KREINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst, Office of Management and
Budget (OMB), Office of the Governor, said although he had not been
informed about a position pro or con of the Knowles Administration,
he talked with Pat Pourchot, Legislative Liaison, who said that the
Governor certainly supported the intent of these measures with more
flexibility to deal with our unique circumstances. The
Administration has some concern about the requirement to review.
He said apparently every federal program has this requirement and
that the Administration's position is that it may be better to
concentrate our resources on the programs that are identified by
the legislature and the Administration, as the ones with the
biggest fiscal impacts or that present the biggest problems to the
state rather running through the whole laundry list of programs,
some of which may not present a problem.
Number 425
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE made a motion to move Amendment 1, which was
offered by Representative Ogan.
On page 2, lines 13 through 15, delete "The commissioner of
each department or head of another agency in the Executive
Branch shall annually review each program administered by that
department or agency. Insert, "The Office of Management and
Budget shall annually review each program administered by each
department or agency of the Executive Branch."
On page 2, line 16, delete "The commissioner or agency head,"
and insert "The Office of Management and Budget."
On page 2, line 19, delete "commissioner or agency head" and
insert "Office of Management and Budget."
On page 3, line 18, following "governor," insert "and the
Alaska Congressional delegation."
MR. KREINHEDER, OMB, said he feels that on the surface, he sees no
problem with the amendment and that in concept, it makes sense to
let more than one agency do the review.
Number 455
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, Department of Health and Social
Services, admits to being a guilty party of high fiscal notes. The
department is subject to federal mandates and it will need
additional resources as to what programs they need to look at if
OMB is going to be directing.
CHAIRMAN BARNES asked for a roll call on the amendment.
Representatives Mackie, Kubina, Williams, Davis, Mulder, Phillips,
and Barns all voted in favor of the adoption of Amendment 1. It
passed unanimously.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS made a motion to move CSHB 83(WTR) out of
committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN BARNES asked if there was an objection. Hearing none, the
motion passed.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE was excused from the meeting.
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